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      Gamereactor
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      Gaming Gossip: Episode 7 - Do we need a mid-gen console refresh?

      Ben, Alex, and David (the BAD Boys) combine to discuss the recent slate of PlayStation 5 Pro rumours, and to share our thoughts and opinions about whether we really want or need a console upgrade/improvement this generation.

      Audio transcription

      "Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Gaming Gossip. It is our seventh one, and today we're doing one really early this week. It's like literally the start of Monday. We're getting in nice and early, ahead of the rush, mainly because there's actually been some interesting news to talk about that happened sort of at the end of last week, at the start of the weekend sort of thing.
      So, we're gonna be talking about the PlayStation 5 Pro, but not specifically just that. More so, we're gonna be talking about mid-gen consoles, right? Because there's been a lot of rumours about it."

      "We're gonna be hearing a lot more rumours about it this week as well, because it's the GDC, which is the Game Developers Conference, I believe.
      So, we're expecting more information about that, potentially more leaks and whatnot. And plus as well, it's nearly the new fiscal year. So, as we've been talking about in these Gaming Gossips, you know, multiple different times, companies, they have to sort of outline what they're planning for the next fiscal year.
      And if PlayStation 5 Pro is on its way, well, we're probably looking at a confirmation relatively soon. So, anyway, we've got Alex as per usual, we've got Dav as per usual, let's talk about it."

      "PS5 Pro, are we excited?
      No.
      Too early.
      I was just like, I had a little cheeky smile to myself, because when we were talking, I realised that we've talked about fiscal stuff so much that we might have a third FF for fiscal frenzy, you know, soon."

      "I'm not that excited, because I like my PS5. I don't want to feel the pull of a mid-gen of like, oh, I don't have as much teraflats or whatever.
      Yeah.
      Me neither. I mean, it still feels like, I don't think it's that early, because it's going to be four years old at the end of this year, right?
      But it feels that early, because in several regions and several markets, they had issues with stock and with delivering the hardware to the stores, for example, such as in Spain."

      "So, not until 2023 did we get hardware.
      Yeah.
      We didn't get hardware to be available, like, normally.
      So, that was last year."

      "So, I think it will feel very early for those who purchased a console last year, which was the only chance they got, right?
      And other than that, I think it's a matter of games.
      We've discussed this very recently at Gaming Gossip.
      So, I don't think you get excited about a new hardware."

      "You get excited about the games you're going to play on it.
      And, of course, comparatively, how they are going to look or make you play better or, you know, what's the difference?
      But the problem is, this is coming, the year where we are not getting any first-party release by Sony anymore in a whole year.
      So, why would I..."

      "I mean, for those who didn't get a PS5 themselves, perhaps there is some excitement to it.
      But that will make them wait for the new model instead of, you know, cleaning up the stock of the previous one.
      And also, we had rumors that the current model production was going to be halt, as in they were going to reduce the forecast for the current model."

      "So, I don't know if that has to do with this as well or just the fact that they weren't releasing any major games this year.
      It does seem like...
      Yeah.
      It's sort of like the perfect storm of reasons why we don't need a mid-gen console refresh this time."

      "Like, again, I understand why it's coming.
      You know, we usually...
      Console generations tend to last about eight years or something like that.
      So, you normally get a mid-gen console refresh four years in."

      "Which does seem weird to say that the PS5 and the Xbox Series line debuted in 2020.
      It doesn't feel that long ago.
      But I guess...
      I guess it's still sort of like, in a way, the effects of the pandemic and making it..."

      "Everything since then seems like it was just yesterday.
      But...
      No, I think I'm in there as well.
      I don't really look ahead to this PS5 Pro with the same sort of excitement as potentially..."

      "I think for one, the Xbox One to One X jump for me was really exciting.
      Because to me, the Xbox One was like a nightmare of a console.
      And then you go to the One X and it's like, oh, okay, we got something quite interesting and fresh here.
      But the PS5, unless they come out and say that it's half the size, right?
      Unless it's like a significantly smaller model."

      "But it doesn't take up all the space on your desk or on your home entertainment system or whatever.
      I'm not really looking forward to it that much.
      I'd still...
      I still don't think we've necessarily seen many games push what this generation of consoles can do anyway."

      "You know, like there's been a few games out there that you look at and go, wow, that's really quite impressive with what they've done.
      But I think we're still waiting for them to hit that pinnacle, that stride with what these consoles can do.
      So I don't necessarily think that it's a bad thing that we're going to get better hard.
      You know, particularly I think the most exciting bit is to do with AI, right?
      I don't think we really see AI incorporated into these generation of consoles all too well."

      "If we're going to get a PS5 Pro that can do something like the 40 series of Nvidia graphics card can do with DLSS 3, then that to me is quite exciting because we're going to get a lot more performance for, you know, compared to what we have right now.
      But I don't look at it with the same sort of excitement as I did with the with other console refreshes or even console GPUs."

      "Or even console generations altogether.
      It does make you think, though, like whether or not this is coming this this autumn.
      I know that there's a lot of rumors saying that it's going to be this autumn, this fall, but if they've got nothing to launch it with.
      I want it to be bigger. I just wanted to jump over your point on it being smaller."

      "I want it to be larger. I want it to be like a big fan in the corner of my room that I'm like slightly scared of.
      You know, I want it. I want it to like potentially like have the potential to kill me.
      I want it to be that big.
      Like a mattress."

      "Yeah, I didn't want to interrupt while you were talking about the mid-gen refresh.
      But I just wanted to add, you know, if it's not if it's not huge, if it's not like a monolith, just like like letting out like a low hum that makes me really like, you know, scared to sleep at night, then I'm not going to be for it.
      But if they did that, I think that would be excellent."

      "They just like wheel it out on like a main stage.
      It's got this big red eye.
      Yeah.
      My big brother.
      Yeah."

      "Freedom is peace or whatever.
      War and slavery starts pumping out sort of messages to you in your sleep.
      Yeah.
      But it is interesting because I think that it probably will be bigger when you look at other sort of hardware."

      "Again, PC graphics cards is an interesting one to go for, because generally speaking, I feel like graphics cards are the things that sort of drive PC growth.
      Right. They're the things that you look at and go, oh, this is the next generation of PC.
      Yeah, there's new CPUs and RAM iterations.
      But it's usually when there's a new graphics card that you look at and go, that's the exciting thing."

      "Especially in our sort of spheres.
      Yeah, exactly.
      The jump from RTX 20 series to 30 series to 40 series, the size difference has been monumental.
      So I wouldn't be surprised if the PS5 Pro is even bigger as well, despite the fact that I want it to be."

      "I want it to be smaller.
      I want it to be similar to the Xbox Series X at most, which is quite like a compact console.
      What's that law in physics?
      It's like, it's not Todd's law."

      "That's the only one I can think of.
      But where everything gets smaller, but also better.
      And like they've said, Nvidia have said that that's not possible anymore, basically, is that we've reached the peak.
      And so now everything's just going to get bigger and probably not that much of a big performance jump."

      "They've released the Slim model as well.
      So, you know, for many people, it's going to be compared to the Slim model, not to the huge router like machine that we got.
      And another interesting fact that you guys mentioned is about the graphic cards.
      We are now seeing more and more Sony PlayStation games being released, like Closer to Launch or even Rumor to be released day one on PC."

      "So I guess it also has to do with the difference that you can see, that you can touch, that you can compare when a title release on PC.
      You really don't want that to look much worse on PS5 hardware.
      So I think that combined.
      Combined with probably chips stuff and where we came from after the pandemic was also this chip shortage that they couldn't deliver the consoles."

      "It wasn't just how Sony, in my opinion, very badly like shared this talk around the world.
      It wasn't just that.
      It was also about chips.
      And we saw that with the Nintendo Switch."

      "What we were getting was an upgrade.
      But we didn't in the end.
      I think they backpedaled on that.
      And they just gave up.
      They didn't give us the OLED model, which wasn't different in terms of hardware."

      "So I think it's a matter of all these little things and that they have to release this year.
      But again, it's slightly contradictory in my in my eyes that they don't they really don't have an argument.
      They really don't have those games to go along with with much as at least as at least we as we know so far.
      At least."

      "Do you think?
      I can't remember if you hear this stuff, but I think we talked about GTA six on one of the early episodes.
      We were talking about will you have a dedicated console to be paired with like in the trailers?
      And I think that might be if they've got nothing coming out and they still want to do it for the autumn, for the fall."

      "And GTA six releases a new trailer and says we're coming out in March, let's say, then they can start pumping out the PlayStation five pro with.
      Hey, it's the it's the only way you're going to run GTA.
      Otherwise, you're going to set your house on fire.
      So maybe it's weird."

      "The problem is, though, is that it's not a new console, is it?
      It's like it's a it's a console refresh.
      So I understand.
      I think that's going to be the case."

      "I think they're going to market this console with GTA six because we just, you know, Sony get all the good marketing deals.
      Yeah.
      Maybe not so much in the future now that Xbox owns Activision Blizzard.
      But."

      "But.
      Yeah.
      Like GTA six is going to be playable on the current PlayStation console anyway, on the current PlayStation five.
      So it's a bizarre situation."

      "It is.
      And it makes me think that whether or not like Sony are looking at this is like, all right, we're probably on our way to losing the sort of software race with Microsoft with all the acquisition things that Microsoft has done and the ways that they've set up Xbox games.
      They're probably a few years out from Xbox game studios being a powerhouse of like production."

      "But you can see that all the paces are in place to to really crank out lots of different bits of future games and software.
      But I wonder if Sony are looking at like we can we can do them in the hardware race here.
      So that's why we have the PlayStation port.
      We have the PSVR systems."

      "We have console refreshes and stuff like that.
      Again, not all of these are successful, right?
      Like we've heard it recently with the PSVR too.
      Hasn't done very well."

      "I'm not surprised.
      I think VR is on the way out.
      I don't really care for it personally.
      But.
      Neither did Sony."

      "The hardware itself is interesting.
      It was.
      And they will be supporting PC as well at the end of the year.
      But again, games, marketing."

      "Where were those?
      It was sent to die, right?
      But what if I mean, the biggest what if here is if GTA 6 can actually release this year.
      Then that would be massive because nobody's expecting any AAA."

      "Like.
      From to play title from from either Microsoft or Sony other than, you know, what we discussed last time with Indiana Jones.
      And yeah, that's it.
      So what if they were able to have like a final rush and released it in the fall?
      That would be with installed park of PS4 and PS5."

      "I mean, yes.
      Rockstar workers.
      You got to feel for them.
      You're going to make them work over time.
      Just imagine."

      "Just imagine in this weird year.
      That would be the perfect storm for them.
      Yeah.
      We get into conspiracy talk now.
      Like this is sort of like reminding me of the ongoing situation with the royal family in the UK."

      "And I'm thinking like, oh, Rockstar.
      All of its.
      All of its employees back.
      The latest one that the king is dead.
      Yeah."

      "I'm believing that more and more.
      But no.
      With Rockstar.
      Royal ramblings.
      The new show coming to you live again."

      "Royal ramblings.
      We could go to.
      We could go to.
      Royal family gossip.
      We could have that."

      "Yeah, we could.
      I'm in Spain, so we can talk about it as well.
      I was.
      I would like to get onto royal family at some point."

      "I think that'd be fun.
      But before we lose the train of thought with GTA, I was just going to say that Rockstar pulled all of its employees right back to the offices.
      They said, we're stopping remote work for a moment because we don't want leaks, quote unquote.
      I know that we're like sort of a year out from where we're expecting GTA 6 to actually debut."

      "But maybe that is an effort to say, look.
      We have an opportunity here to do something really quite, you know, unexpected and to really capitalize on what other people are missing.
      So maybe that is the case.
      Maybe we're lining up an earlier release for GTA 6 than many would have expected."

      "But I don't know.
      It's a lot to say.
      It's definitely something to talk about.
      But I don't know.
      Alex, do you have anything else you want to talk about the royal family before we carry on?
      I love the theories."

      "Right.
      So basically, you know, for anyone not in the know, Kate Middleton, the Princess of Wales, went away for a while because she had surgery.
      And the theory now is that actually with King Charles's cancer diagnosis, Prince William's already prepping himself for the throne.
      And he doesn't want Kate because she's a commoner."

      "So he found a new mistress.
      And then Kate's disappeared because he was soft launching her to just be gone from the public eye for a while.
      Soft launching her.
      So then Kate's come back in what appears to be an AI-generated image of her and her children, which has just baffled everyone."

      "And now the leading theory is that King Charles might already be dead.
      Bear in mind, it should be said.
      A new day off.
      Yeah."

      "Yeah.
      That's for us.
      Good news.
      RIP the King.
      Anyway, the current thing is theory is that certain publications in the UK have been put on, I don't want to say on hold, but, you know, they've been told to expect."

      "Yeah.
      They've been told to expect an announcement from the royal family, like within the next sort of like 24, 36 hours.
      So that's why Alex is bringing this up right now, because it's currently the big topic of conversation in the UK.
      Despite the fact that, you know, they're saying as well that Kate Middleton is expected to return to the public eye this Easter and stuff."

      "It's been a whirlwind of emotions.
      It's been a whirlwind over here.
      Every news cycle is something about this.
      It's been crazy."

      "Great, great topics of controversy and, you know, conspiracies and whatnot.
      I don't know whether it's been the same for you, Dav, whether Spanish media picked up on it like UK media.
      It's always been the same.
      Yeah."

      "I actually, I can expect them to counterattack with a similar story, like so absurd and so stupid.
      And we've seen photoshopped images in the past with our royal family as well.
      And crazy stories with the King living in an Arabic country and stuff, you know, and coming to Spain once a year for sailing.
      So, yeah, we could run a whole show about English and the Spanish royal family."

      "I don't know about the Danish workmates, but perhaps we can make this a thing.
      I know that they had an abdication recently as well.
      So every time I speak to Dav, not Dav, Magnus about it, he always gives me some very interesting opinions of his royal family.
      They're apparently not very beloved, should we say, the royal family in Denmark."

      "Oh, no.
      You need a cure.
      Yeah.
      You never know.
      Anyway, let's talk about games again."

      "We've done enough royal family stuff today.
      We'll pick that up next week.
      Yeah.
      When something big's happened, hopefully."

      "Games.
      Consoles.
      Xbox.
      Let's pivot away from PlayStation and talk about Xbox.
      So the rumors are all about PlayStation 5 Pro."

      "We've heard varying things about Xbox.
      We know there's going to be some sort of hardware announcement this year.
      We're expecting that to be potentially the handheld Xbox.
      Do we think Xbox are going to do a mid-range?
      Do we think Xbox are going to do a mid-gen console refresh?
      Or do we assume that they're just going to pass over that and move towards or keep focusing on next generation of Xbox in like 2028 or something?
      They could do like what is technically a mid-fresh but call it a new name."

      "Because they give their consoles so many weird names now.
      They could bring out like the Xbox Series Z.
      And it's like a digital only thing with the power of X plus a little bit of the whatever.
      They could do anything at this point."

      "Because they've sort of whereas PlayStation it has to sort of be the very sort of this and then the pro and this and then the pro and then this and then the pro.
      Whereas Xbox have just been like tell you what we didn't go for the 720 after the 360.
      You know fair game for anything.
      We could name whatever we want."

      "Do we know why they called it the X and the S?
      Because I've always thought that was weird.
      Extreme.
      Small or something?
      Extreme and small."

      "It is.
      Which way was it man?
      It's very strange.
      X was for the one as well right?
      So that was the origins."

      "And then perhaps S is used same as an L.
      It's used in many hardware pieces of hardware like for the smaller sort of like the light and the S.
      I think it was planned.
      I think they were actually planning to release a mid-gen upgrade."

      "But at the same time they sort of changed plans.
      With how things are going and how.
      And you know what they announced is just that as you said.
      Handheld system to be announced and perhaps released towards the end of the year."

      "And then the sharing of the plans for the future iteration right?
      I don't expect them anymore to have a because they are not at all about hardware anymore.
      So they I think when they come out they will come out like saying this is stronger than the PS1.
      Stronger than the PS5 Pro."

      "Like new gen.
      I think I expect that from Microsoft.
      Am I right in saying as well that the mid-gen console refresh from last year.
      They didn't debut at the same time."

      "That there was a bit of a gap between them.
      I feel like that was the case.
      Because I know that obviously when you have a new console generation they tend to line up.
      So you have a PlayStation and new Xbox at the same time."

      "But I feel like there was a phase maybe it was last.
      It was last console generation.
      So like maybe the PS4 Pro came out and then 1X came out just after it or something like that.
      Like a six month period after."

      "Would that potentially be the case do we think as well with this?
      Where PlayStation will come out say this is the new most powerful console.
      And Xbox will snap back at them after a little while.
      Give them a little bit you know time in the sun and then take it away from them."

      "Do gamers care anymore?
      I don't think so.
      I mean I remember Nintendo being totally wrong about their not caring when the Wii.
      Gamers don't care about graphics anymore."

      "But nowadays do they care anymore?
      Do they actually know that the Xbox Series X is slightly more powerful than the PS5?
      Do they know that at all?
      Clearly not because no one's buying it."

      "Yeah.
      It feels like a very small but very loud audience that's still in the console wars.
      And they'll post on Twitter or whatever about like oh yeah well guess what?
      You can have more of Spider-Man 2 but you can't run it at 40 FPS."

      "We can huh?
      It's like okay you know like everyone knows at this point that if you want the most powerful gaming rig you get yourself a PC.
      But then you also sort of have to sell one of your kidneys for it.
      So you might as well get like a..."

      "And keep selling right?
      Yeah.
      I've got none left.
      Did they know PS2 was the least powerful of them three?
      Yeah."

      "With GameCube being very very very powerful for its size.
      My GameCube exploded.
      My GameCube unironically.
      It was so powerful."

      "Yeah it nearly killed me.
      But I plugged it back in recently because I was like oh I'll play some like nostalgic games or something.
      I think it was like Madagascar the game for the movie.
      I plugged it in and it started whirling around."

      "And me and my brother were just like sitting over there you know.
      I think probably pre-pandemic but not ages ago.
      And we were just like sort of and then there was a bit of smoke and then it like full on just exploded in front of us.
      Shards everywhere."

      "That's how powerful it was.
      Mine was a black box.
      It won't break ever.
      It's still going so.
      But people didn't care."

      "So and at the same time we have to...
      I mean of course they are not competing but again we've discussed this.
      Previous gaming gossip shows.
      Nintendo is going to release in a year from now."

      "So again PS5 owners.
      Are they going to upgrade?
      Is AI making so much of a difference for the ones who have a PS5?
      Whereas Nintendo system is complementary."

      "So those having a PS5 already owning a PS5.
      I think like the upgrade they are asking for is the Switch.
      Many players who have an old Switch or an OLED.
      That upgrade makes sense."

      "But again as we started this show.
      Does it make sense for a PS5 owner?
      I don't know.
      Unless as you said.
      Unless the AI is sort of dreaming to it."

      "Are crazy.
      I think they need to promise a lot for this.
      They need to come out and say like.
      30 FPS is gone.
      Every game that launches the PS5 Pro will be 4K 60 FPS."

      "Or you know.
      1440p 120 FPS or something.
      Like they have to.
      You're keeping me back.
      Yeah."

      "And that's another thing actually.
      Just as a final point before we wrap up.
      The PS5 is still an expensive console.
      So is the Xbox Series X."

      "So if this is an even more powerful version of the PS5.
      Are we expecting it to cost more?
      And if that's the case.
      What sort of price bracket are we looking at for an even more powerful console?
      How much is the PS5 right now?
      About 450 quid still I think isn't it?
      In the UK."

      "So I don't know.
      Are we looking at like a.
      It's now £60 off.
      Oh at the moment.
      You're a big deal guys."

      "In case anyone's looking to buy one.
      Yeah I think this is going to be like a £500 plus console.
      Which is that.
      It's not the right moment to do that right?
      And what is going to happen with the current model?
      I mean the Slim is so recent."

      "Are you really going to kill that version?
      Are you going.
      I mean you can't.
      You really have to have like the lower price point for people to jump in right?
      The new gen."

      "Because there's lots of people who really hadn't jumped in as of yet.
      Yeah.
      Because they're playing PS4.
      Because they're playing EA Sports FC and Call of Duty on the PS4."

      "Millions.
      Yeah.
      We're still not past the last generation.
      We still haven't.
      We still haven't said we're done with that generation."

      "The games are still frequently coming out.
      And yet we have a mid-gen refresh for this generation.
      It's bizarre.
      I don't think we're ready for this."

      "I think that Sony are going to get sort of kick in the mouth a little bit.
      When they release this console.
      Because it's coming.
      That's one thing for certain."

      "The rumors are all saying it's coming.
      We can kind of agree that it's on its way.
      But I don't think it's going to come out.
      And I don't think it's going to surprise people too much."

      "What they could do is maybe.
      If they've got the £60 off deal right now.
      And it ends at March.
      Maybe that's just the new prices for the Slim."

      "The base edition.
      And then it goes up to £480 for the Pro or something like that.
      I can't.
      If they did like.
      If they did more."

      "If they did like £550 plus.
      No one's buying it.
      No.
      That's the problem.
      Apart from the ultimate consumers."

      "The people that will just buy anything.
      The people that brought the handheld.
      The Portal.
      When it was just out.
      There are people out there like that."

      "Gamers now.
      Mostly sort of in the age bracket.
      Where they.
      Well I wouldn't say mostly.
      Because I would say."

      "The people that spend the most time playing games.
      Are still people at school and stuff.
      But a lot of people now.
      That play games."

      "Are older.
      Have the money to buy things for themselves.
      And they'll see like.
      £500 is like.
      Yeah."

      "That's an investment.
      I'll buy that.
      I'll get the PlayStation 5 Pro.
      Why not?
      Just play COD on it."

      "Why not?
      Yeah.
      Or The Last of Us 2.
      Remastered.
      Redux."

      "The 1 and 2 collection.
      You know they're bringing out the 1 and 2 collection.
      Yeah.
      That's the problem.
      There are no games."

      "And if there.
      There's been layoffs.
      So.
      And we discussed that before.
      But."

      "We don't expect any AAA studio to.
      To release anything.
      To take advantage.
      Of that new hardware.
      At least that we know."

      "Perhaps it's as you said Ben.
      It's something like.
      A new standard.
      Like anything you play.
      Be it PS4 or PS5."

      "On the PS5 Pro.
      Is going to be.
      These.
      At the very minimum.
      Like."

      "At the very least.
      You're going to get.
      4K.
      60 frames per second.
      And no resolution."

      "Like.
      Scaling.
      Right?
      That would be nice.
      I would."

      "Buy that.
      Because I'm a geek.
      Yeah.
      But for those playing.
      Fortnite."

      "Yeah.
      That's the thing though.
      Isn't it?
      It's clearly going to be like.
      As you say."

      "That sort of geek console.
      Isn't it?
      It's going to be for the people.
      The enthusiasts.
      And I don't."

      "Oh yeah.
      Much else.
      It's.
      No one else is ready for it yet.
      This isn't the jump."

      "Between the PS4.
      And the PS4 Pro.
      This isn't the jump.
      Between the.
      PS5 Pro."

      "And the PS5 Pro.
      It is.
      There's going to be plenty of.
      Again.
      Tech stuff."

      "Don't expect a lot of game information.
      And game news.
      That's not what GDC is for.
      But there will be tech stuff.
      To talk about."

      "And.
      Again.
      The fiscal year is coming to the end.
      I know we talk about it a lot.
      But it's coming to an end."

      "So yes.
      Financial frenzy.
      The financial frenzy.
      It's coming.
      It's coming."

      "The end is coming.
      We'll no doubt know more about the PS5 Pro.
      And the Switch successor.
      So stay tuned for that.
      And probably the next."

      "Gaming gossip.
      Or the one after that.
      Something like that.
      So.
      PS7."

      "Alex.
      Dav.
      Always a pleasure.
      We'll be back next week.
      For the next one."

      "So stay tuned for that.
      And otherwise.
      Thank you for watching."

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