Film Frenzy: Episode 13 - Will Superman be strong enough to carry the DC Universe

We talk about the first picture for the upcoming Superman flick, and share our thoughts and concerns about the film slated to debut in July 2025.

Audio transcription

"Hello everyone and welcome back to the 13th episode of Film Frenzy. Today, again, it's just me and Alex. We're like in mind again, it's just 4th birthday running, I guess.
4th birthday running, yeah. But no, yeah, it's just me and Alex today. We're going to talk about superheroes, I guess. The movie space, we're kind of in this weird sort of phase where there's not really that much exciting news per se to talk about. We're in between apes. And we're in between apes, yeah. Next week will probably be our final simian season episode, I guess. Unless there's any more ape films or monkey films coming out, I don't think so. I can find them for you if you want them. But no, yeah, we're going to be talking about superheroes today. Mainly because we've both been given our first look at David Corenswet's Superman in the upcoming Superman. Is that how you pronounce it? I think so, I'm not sure. I thought it was Corenswet. That's how I've always been saying it in my head. Corenswet."

"But that's not really, I don't know, it doesn't sound like a nice name. We'll have a look at Dave's Superman, all right? So, yeah. It's, yeah, we'll get our first look at it. Of the film that's coming up, it's going to be called Superman, I believe, because they dropped the legacy bit. Yeah. Which I quite like that the legacy bit's gone, but I also think it's a bit weird that it's called Superman. Yeah, I don't know. I think that, I mean, I guess just calling it Superman just makes it easier for the mainstream audience to pick it up, I guess. Yeah. If you put the legacy, it's like, I'm going to have to see, oh, how many do I have to see before I go? Yeah, exactly. What I will say, though, is that just calling it Superman's a bit boring in my eyes. You know what I mean? Yeah. I like the name as much as the whole former DC thing kind of sucked in its own way, right? I really like the name of Man of Steel. I think that was a great name for a film, because it's literally the name of the superhero, but it's also like, it's slightly different. And it was a decent film as well. Could also be a great Stalin biopic. Yeah, yeah, it would. Joseph Stalin once referred to as the Man of Steel. Yep. Actually, Superman's inspiration, I believe."

"Oh. Yeah. Hey, look, we're getting into trivia now. But no, yeah, I think that's, I just hope that this doesn't become like the thing with superhero movies in the future. I mean, I say in the future, I mean, we've got films like Deadpool, they're just called Deadpool.
Captain America. Thor. It's like, it's pretty common for superhero movies to be called that, but it's boring, to say the least. So I hope that DC sort of eventually steps away from it, because we've already had Wonder Woman, right? We've already had Wonder Woman films, we've had Aquaman. Two Aquamen, yeah. What are we going to do? We're going to go through all of that again? Have to change all the old ones to Wonder Woman 2016 or whatever? Like, I'm not about that. Anyway, let's actually talk about Supes. So what's your thoughts, Ned? Do you like the outfit? Do you like the costume? I don't really, no. I think it's a bit too, like, I understand they couldn't really go with a full, like, and I think the lighting as well is probably not the best, because it's quite dark, and the last, like, it's a bit, it's a bit too reminiscent of the Snyderverse to me, with the whole, like, paws on the flesh of the suit, like, the blue being looking like it's a bit, like, it is a bit like a scaly skin that he's putting on, rather than, like, an actual suit, which is weird, because if you look at, like, James Gunn's other stuff, and the same costume designer has worked on, like, Peacemaker, and the Peacemaker suit's really good, and it's really bright, and it's really vibrant, and you look at, even, like, Guardians, their suits are okay. The third one a bit, you know, but a bit boring, but yeah, I think it was a bit boring. I don't really mind, though, that the suit isn't the best. I think I've still, I've still got a lot of anticipation for this film, because I think we need a good Superman movie. Something that I was going to throw back to you is, because we've had, like, Homelander and Omni-Man now, I don't think we need, like, a Man of Steel Superman that, you know, kills by the end and has a bit of edge to him. I think we need a genuinely good guy who's, like, quite, you know, he's, like, willing to save a cat in a tree as much as he's willing to, like, stop the alien outside of the shot, you know."

"Yeah, I would agree. I think that it's literally the perfect time to do Superman right.
Something we haven't seen in a while. I mean, look, Man of Steel was, in many ways, on that path, but then, obviously, Zack Snyder went Zack Snyder's way and literally made him break his one rule by the end of the first movie. So, yeah, but hopefully we won't see something like that."

"Hopefully, it will be a very, sort of, pure version of the character to kickstart this.
Talking about the suit, though, I do get what you mean. When I look at it, I think that the lower half of it, especially with the boots and all that, I think that looks quite good.
The trunks are nice."

"Yeah, exactly. It's the upper half, though. I saw someone describe it, like, it looks like a motorcycle suit, right?
Like, it's really loose fitting in places. It's curled. There's the, like, there's the gap around the back of the neck. It just doesn't look like it fits him right."

"And yeah, you know, the colour's a bit, sort of, washed and it doesn't feel as vibrant as we've seen from other James Gunn stuff.
And what I will say as well, though, is that as bad as the DC Extended Universe ended up being, I don't think the costumes were particularly bad. I think the costumes, generally speaking, were pretty good. So I think that they could have looked towards that and, you know, the people who worked on it over the years as a framework, because I think they, you know, for all its vices, I don't think the costumes were the things that really put the final nail in the coffin for the DC Extended Universe."

"They weren't the biggest letdown.
Well, like, I still think that, like, the Wonder Woman outfit for Star is pretty much bang on what you'd want for the character. I think it's, like, a perfect visual representation of it. The ones that are a bit boring are obviously, like, Shazam and Black Adam and stuff like that, because they're just, like, skin suits that just got a lightning bolt at the front. It's a bit really boring, but... We've always got that, like, ball sack-y texture to them as well, you know? It's just a bit, like, overly, like, or someone who's got, like, loads of black heads on their nose is, like, the Superman suit, I guess, is probably the best thing."

"And it's a bit... The weird thing is that it's loose-fitting, because surely, like, David Coren's work, whatever his last name is, he's been getting absolutely jacked for this.
He's been on that Hollywood, you know, prayers and broccoli, basically, you know? He's been absolutely, like, going through the ringer to get in shape for this film and to get, like, massively jacked for it. And then to have his sort of suit be a bit loose-fitting and a bit, like, not really showing him off, it's like, well, you know, give us what we want. Give us the muscles. I do wonder how much or if there's any padding used. Like, not that it matters. I just know that, for example, like, Henry Cavill is Henry Cavill and he's massive, right? And the suit seems to be, like, pretty form-fitting to him. But for Homelander, for example, and Anthony Starr. He gets buffed up by it. Yeah, he isn't massive. The suit is designed to make him look that way. So, you have to wonder how it's shaped up there. I would assume, judging by what we've seen of the Superman costumes so far, that it is rather form-fitting. You know, he doesn't, he looks, like, you know, quite big, but he doesn't look absolutely massive."

"So, I think that it's probably more in line with that. But another weird thing, though, about this suit and the way that they've shown it off is that he's sitting down.
I like that. Do you like that? I like that he's, like, putting on his boots. It, like, crumples the suit, though, if you know what I mean. Yeah. So, I just think that it's strange that you wouldn't have him standing up and or, you know, having him in a position where there's less room for the suit to look, sort of, crumpled and ruffled a bit. But I don't know. It's a very unusual situation. But, you know... It's very James Gunn to me, that. It is very James Gunn. When was this movie set to come out? July 2025, I think, right? So, we're, like, over 13 months away or something from this film even coming out. Yeah, a very long time away from it coming out. So, you know, we've got plenty of time to see more about it. And knowing James Gunn and the way that he operates, I think we're going to see a lot about this film."

"Yeah, we'll probably know, like, everything from start to finish before it even comes out, to be honest. Because it's going to have leaks. Yeah, exactly. And the next one that's going to be, as well, it's probably going to be... We're going to see Nicholas Holt as Lex Luthor in some form. Yeah. Because it's not like they've been quiet about the role he's playing. Everyone knows that Nicholas Holt is playing Lex Luthor in this film. So, I assume we're going to get a taste of that at some point. As for the other roles... Is Millie Alcock supposed to be in this film, right? As Supergirl? She's Supergirl. There's Nathan Filly in his Green Lantern."

"There's the Engine Woman. I can't remember her name. There's the... Is the Hawkman in this?
There's loads of stuff. And it's another Gunnism, because he really likes his ensembles in, like, his superhero stuff. And he also really likes normal guys. So, like, I mean, like Star-Lord, who is, like, a normal guy who is by no means as capable as any of the other members of the other Guardians of the Galaxy. And yet he's the protagonist, because he sort of grounds the film and makes a relatable character for the audience. And I think he might be going that angle with Superman. I'm not entirely sure on that. And I don't know how well it would work. But I think the putting on the boots and the sort of, like... He's almost got this face as well of, like, this has got to go back to work. You know, when there's that massive alien outside. And that could be very much the element of it, because we're seeing the start of the Superman. And I think that's why we've got so many other heroes around as well, is that they're going to sort of be like, OK, Superman, you need to sort of take control of..."

"What's the name of the city? Metropolis. Metropolis. I always confuse it with the Megamind Metro City. And he, like... I think that could be the angle. But I don't know.
I'm excited to see it. And I hope that there isn't that many spoilers, because I would like to just go in pretty fresh and clean. You know, I have a lot of faith in James Gunn and what he does."

"But at the same time, I won't lie that I'm a little bit concerned about this film for the simple reason that, you know, Guardians of the Galaxy, The Suicide Squad, all these other superhero movies that we really love from what Gunn's done in the past. Peacemaker, another one, a TV show, but not a film. But the point is, is that these ones that they're just sort of additional elements to an overall wider narrative. This film has to kickstart the DC universe, like properly kickstart it. And my concern with it is that it's probably going to be two and a half hours long, something around that marker, because that's what films tend to be these days."

"And in that time, we need to set the grounds for the future of the DC universe, set the grounds for Superman, all these different ensemble characters, do all this stuff, have a cohesive narrative as well in there for this one singular film. And it concerns me that we're on the track for potentially a Rebel Moon situation where too much is happening at once. Yeah, it doesn't land in the way that it needs to. And that's my little bit of concern with it. If you've said that this was a, if you said that the cast of this film is similar to the cast of Man of Steel, it's like it's Superman, Lois Lane, a couple of the Kents, there's going to be a central villain, let's say it's Lex Luthor this time instead of General Zod. Yeah, but like, you know, you have like, this film is about Superman. It's about setting the grounds for Superman as a character."

"I'd be very comfortable with it and what James Gunn's doing, but I'm a little bit concerned that he's stretching himself too thin and trying to do too many different things at once here.
So yeah, I don't know. Do you have any similar sort of concerns? I think we'll see when we, we'll only see when we get that. I can see the Rebel Moon argument of like, James Gunn might be thinking like, two movies down the line at least. And he might be like, don't worry guys, when we get to, you know, Supergirl or when we get to Creature Commandos or when we get to all the other ones that he's got planned in this first part of the DCEU, the first phase of it, the Gods and Monsters bit. He's like, when you get to that, you'll see the whole picture. It's like, James, they might not be about to give you the budget for those films, you know? They're also like, years down the line. Like, do people have the motivation and time to stick with it for several years? It depends if the first one's good. Yeah, it does. It all depends if that first, it's like Iron Man. People were willing to go watch the MCU stuff because they were like, well, Iron Man was good. And even though it didn't have, and I don't think maybe, I don't think that Superman has to necessarily set up these groundworks as in, okay, you can see exactly where the plot's going to go. Because you didn't see Thanos until Avengers. You didn't see, you know, you only saw the team up idea of Nick Fury at the very end credit scene of Iron Man. So maybe that's what we get, is we get a Superman movie that gives us a great character that's our foundation of the new DCU. And at the end, we get a little tease of, okay, you know, there's other stuff out there that he can get involved in. Also, like, Supergirl comes in at the very end, and that's our setup for Supergirl. I really do hope that's the case. I really, really do. Because I've always been a firm believer that while Marvel probably has overall better heroes, the DC Universe always had the better villains and the better storylines. That's always been my sort of take on it, but it's never been properly realized in a theatrical format, really."

"So I really do hope that's the case. I'm just concerned because, again, you know, Iron Man came out 2008, 2009, something like that. 2008. 2008. I can't, I mean, I'm sure that the bigwigs over at Disney and Marvel Studios had plans to expand Iron Man further, but, and, you know, into like a full sort of cinematic universe sort of thing. But I can't imagine that when they were gearing up to make Iron Man, they were thinking like, right, so this is the first film. By the time that we get to Avengers, this is where the storyline is going to be. Like, I think it was more like, let's just make Iron Man. If it makes a bunch of money, then we'll go from there. Whereas this one here, you can, well, it's not even like you can tell it's going that way. We know it's going that way because he's outlined the entirety of the first phase. So, you know, I think that there's a lot of, there's a lot of hazards that this film has to somehow cross and survive, you know, because we're in a very savvy era of movie-going consumers."

"And as well, this isn't just like a new sort of cinematic universe. This is DC again, and people have been burned in DC before, so they're going to be even more cautious.
So, I don't know. Like three years off DC, if that, really. Like, considering like the Batman is sort of its own separate entity, which is another thing of like the mega confusion."

"Because even with Marvel, you know, there's the Sony-verse, which is just a mess. You've got like this, this tire fire across the way. And then you've got the nice, like, sort of, I mean, the MCU is also becoming a mess. Like, it's with the, with the whole, the timey-wimey bollocks, it's all getting really, really messy. Because why should I, I don't care about multiverses."

"I don't care about any of that stuff. If you, if you tell me that there's a million Doctor Strangers in the world, why should I care if Benedict Cumberbatch dies? That's the, that's the main issue I think that it's fallen into. And it can't answer that question. It genuinely can't give you an answer apart from, oh, but look, there's one that's a zombie, you know? And so the MCU has also fallen into a bit of a mess, but it was, it's, you know what you're getting with Marvel. You know that everything is tied into the same universe."

"If I want to go see the new Batman movie, if I want to go see the new Joker movie, and if I want to go see the new Superman movie, I have to understand that they are all in three separate universes, which is especially infuriating when two of them would not exist. Well, one of them would not exist without the first one. The Joker movie would not exist without Batman. And yet we're never going to see Batman fully realized in Todd Phillips' Jokerverse because he's, you know, too focused on giving a movie for, I don't know who at this point, because the first one was the incel, you know, like Black Panther, basically. It was the incel Black Panther. And the second one, it's like, he's got a girlfriend. He can't be an incel anymore. You know, like who's it for?
And it is worth saying as well that then you have Peacemaker on top of that. And Peacemaker's a really, really bizarre situation because the first season was part of the DC Extended Universe, but the second season is seemingly not part of the DC Extended Universe. It's a completely different thing. It continues the storyline of the first season. So I don't know what is going on there."

"It's already complicated and weird. It's making my head hurt. Exactly. DC is such a, like a train wreck. And despite the fact that it's pressed the big red reset button, it's still a train wreck.
And that's what really concerns me about this film, because I think it needed to, it needs to just be Superman. It needs to just be about Superman. Keep it really basic, really simple. Superman against Lex. Good versus evil. What comes next? We'll talk about that after we've got this film out the door. Let's just set the scene for this character. But instead, it's like, oh, here's Hawkman, here's Green Lantern, here's Supergirl. You're like, hang on a minute. I'm sure James Gunn, being the great filmmaker that he is, has plans to do all this in a decent way. But I'm just really starting to become, again, a bit more savvy, a bit more concerned when you see these plots outlined like this."

"I don't know. Hopefully it will surprise us. I think it's still, I've still got hope for it, because I think Superman is one of the easiest characters to do right that you've never done right. And he might not. The thing is, is that people nowadays, they think they want like, I think we've had enough of like edge and grunge and gore and whatever. Like to me, I don't like Invincible. Hot take. I don't really like it. I don't think it's very good. I think it's yet another superhero thing that follows the exact same sets of tropes that we already know, and parodies things without even really parodying them. It just copies them."

"And the only thing going for it is epic gore. And to me, that's just like not interesting anymore.
I don't really care. There's loads of things to try and sell you on how much blood and gore they have. The boys is starting to get a bit annoying because it's like, guys, we're going even crazier this season. We're going even crazier. You're going to have a penis and it's going to explode."

"And that's it. That's been like the selling point for three seasons in a row, you know?
And so I think what you could have is you can completely flip the whole grunge core hellscape that superhero movies are trying to portray now. Because even like Deadpool, it's the only MCU project and it's going to be an R-rated movie. If you flip that, you go for the classic sort of like, not the campiness of Christopher Reeve's Superman, but the sort of like pure soul of like, this is a good bloke and he likes doing good things."

"When was the last time we genuinely saw something like that? Captain America, the first Avenger, I want to say, because Winter Soldier is like a sort of spy thriller. And then Civil War becomes like a sort of thing of it's an Avengers movie more than it is Captain America movie. So like the first Avenger is probably the last time we saw that. And that was 13 years ago."

"So, you know, give us some more good people because it's a nice thing to do. And it's also like, it's a way to bring back the nostalgia of the old Superman stuff while also giving people something that is to this generation of moviegoers quite new. I don't know. That's just my two cents.
But I think James Gunn is someone that understands characters like that. And he wouldn't read all the Superman comics that he reads and pick out the ones where he's evil because there's no point in doing it. It would be too Snyder focused, I think. I can't wait until some random character you never heard about shows up and kills Superman at the end of this film. Yeah, that would be good."

"But anyway, yeah, we were going to talk about Marvel as well, but I think we've kept this very much about Superman and DC, so we'll keep it.
He's the big thing right now, isn't it? The fact that they can show an image, though, and create an entire conversation around that shows that there's still a lot of interest in this film. And that's all they need for now, I think. And it shows as well how poorly used Superman has been for years. When was the last time? Yeah, Man of Steel was pretty good, but it led into the car crash that is DC. So when was the last time we had like a really good, solid Superman thing? Yeah, the animated stuff like My Adventures with Superman is apparently really good, but that's not mainstream. It's apparently a really good series, but it's not a really mainstream look at the superhero, the original superhero, you know?
Exactly, it's a fair point. But we'll probably talk more about DC and Superman in the future, especially when we get to see more about it. For 2025, yeah, Film Frenzy."

"Maybe they'll share a picture of Lex and it'll make us all really angry and we'll talk about it.
He's not even bald! But yeah, anyway, this has been episode 13 of Film Frenzy. We'll be back next week, hopefully with Magnus, to talk about something. Talk about some apes."

"Oh, apes, of course. Simian season. We'll have to talk about monkeys. So yeah, stay tuned for that.
Alex, as always, a pleasure. As always, a pleasure."





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