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Becoming a Parent (to a Wolf) - Neva Interview at the BIG Conference 2024

We spoke with Roger Mendoza co-founder at Nomada Studio, about the experiences that helped shape Neva.

Audio transcription

"Alright, we are in Bilbao for the BIG 2024 and I'm here catching up with Roger once again.
Now, after the release of Neva, congratulations on the release of the game and on the many nominations that you guys are having for the Game of the Year."

"You know, in several areas you're nominated for the TGA, the Game Awards, which we are part of the jury. That's nice.
The other day we were in Lisbon for the DevGAMM and you were nominated for Music, Sound and Art, I think.
Yeah, correct."

"So, congratulations on all this and of course on the reception.
So, how do you guys feel? How do you guys feel about the reception, about the fans, about the nominations?
Super happy. Obviously, the reception has been really good. The reviews were great.
Even one point better than GRIS, which I was surprised on OpenCritic."

"And, of course, nominations are always really exciting.
We were not expecting a nomination for The Game Awards again.
Obviously, you're always dreaming about it, but not that it would happen, and especially not three.
So, yeah, fingers crossed. Let's see how it goes."

"What have players told you about how they feel about the game?
The changes, mostly, the changes in gameplay.
You guys introduced more, well, combat.
There's a bit less of puzzle elements, but there's more combat."

"Different type of platforming, the way you change the gameplay with the seasons.
What are they telling you?
Well, so far, they are telling us that they really like it.
Well, obviously, there's a bit of everything."

"The game is more complex than GRIS, I would say.
So, there's people like my dad, who hasn't been able to finish it so far, Neva.
He finished GRIS, not Neva.
So, for him, he always says, it's a bit too difficult."

"But we knew that that could happen.
This is something that was open and a possibility.
But the reception has been great.
People say that they like the gameplay more than in GRIS."

"The art style is working a lot, they are enjoying it.
Most of the people connect well with the story, and they really cry when the wolf dies at the beginning of the story.
So, so far, it's been great. We're very happy."

"You can tell your dad that there are checkpoints aplenty.
I know, I know, I know.
But I think it's more a skill issue.
When you have to double jump, dash, and do something, then I lost him."

"That's it, right?
Like, jump, dash, jump, solves most of the platforming puzzles.
But I mean checkpoints for one reason.
There is some interesting thing I noticed that I didn't know before playing."

"That is that, you know, you have these collectibles, this hidden sort of flowers, plant thing.
And then you might miss them.
But then you can actually reload the game from these many different points."

"So, tell me a little bit about this decision.
I think it's interesting.
It's good for completionists after playing the game.
Yeah, this is something that we knew we wanted to do."

"Because it's always annoying when you miss a collectible and you have to play 20 minutes to get to the end of the level just for that one thing.
So we knew we'd put at least two checkpoints.
One at the beginning of the chapter and one right at the middle."

"And also it's interesting if you want to do like a specific sequence that you enjoyed.
It's the same reasoning.
It's like, let's not make players play the whole game just for that one specific thing.
So at least they can jump ahead."

"And speaking about sections, which would you say is your personal favorite season or section within a season?
I mean, in terms of gameplay, which is something I like a lot, it's definitely the winter one."

"In winter, there's this chapter with invisible platforms that people really like their brain explode because you need to play on a mirror.
Controls are reversed.
And it's super simple."

"It's a very basic concept, but people really love it.
So gameplay wise, it's that one for sure.
Art wise, I really like fall because it's one of my favorite seasons.
So all the red colors, the oranges, the yellows."

"I think it works really well.
Also with the earthquakes.
There's a lot of things in fall.
So between those two, that would be my favorite for sure."

"There are a lot of things in fall and it's actually the longest.
It's quite longer than the others.
Why so?
Is it because, as you just said, the colors and the importance like emotionally is different to the others?
Yeah, and it felt well to the narrative because it's right the first time the wolf you see it as an adult."

"Well, not an adult, a teenager, I would say.
We wanted to show the players how the wolf has its own behavior also.
We were very motivated with the idea of having the nightmare section, which is at the end of fall, because that allows us to go a bit more crazy."

"You know, it's a nightmare.
You can do whatever you want.
So at the end of the day, we start piecing things together and it is actually the longest one, but I think it works well."

"By nightmare you mean, no spoiler here, by nightmare you mean the section where everything is red and you have these mouths you have to jump on.
I call them the mouths of hell."

"Exactly.
I don't know if that works.
So what can you tell me about this specific mechanic?
I think that's the part I loved the most from Neva."

"That's cool.
Yeah, that's something we wanted to do because when we first had the nightmare area, which is this one you're saying, the black and red area, it felt like it was lacking something."

"We were playing a lot with the light, but it was a bit too oppressive, I would say, and it was not enjoyable.
And we still have that part at the end, which I think works well because it's shorter, but we needed a mechanic that worked well in that context."

"And we had this idea of mouths that could eat you and the fact that it's a nightmare, it works well.
And I don't remember what we were playing, but we were playing another game that I don't remember, but there was this kind of teleport thingy that also works well, and that's what we tried it."

"And it works really well in combat also, which is something that people don't exploit a lot, but you can throw enemies on the mouth, they fall from somewhere else, you can throw yourself a spike down, you teleport and hit it in the middle."

"And when everything came together, we were like, okay, this is pretty cool.
This works well.
Now that I've played the full game, and I'm a dad myself, and of course Conrad, and you yourself, you told me how this was about being parents and having to deal with kids."

"How do you personally feel about that?
Now the game is out, we can talk about what the game is about.
So how do you feel about that?
That message."

"Well, I mean, I started the game when I was not a dad.
Now I finished the game and I am a dad.
And well, my kids are still small, but the part that I see myself more reflected is that the wolf does whatever he wants."

"It doesn't listen to you.
You have to run after him.
It's like, no, this way.
And the kids are like, ah.
It's the spring of your parental."

"Exactly.
So that's super cool, though, because I feel like I'm connecting with the game at a different level.
And I think the game succeeded well in that, and the fact that, for example, you start protecting the wolf, the wolf ends up protecting you, which is something that hopefully will happen with my kid."

"So I think this whole parenthood thing works well and I think people connected with it, honestly.
And then about the combat itself, there's a bunch of mechanics you guys introduced."

"And then, as you told me before release, what you get is more ways to use Neva instead of more abilities for Alba.
How do you feel about the combat?
The result?
What are players telling you about this?
And where do you think it could be improved or changed or evolved in a future game?
I mean, I really like the combat."

"I think it's very fluid.
It controls well.
It allows you to do a lot of cool things.
It's true, and some people have complained that it's a bit simple, but we knew that because, again, we didn't want to miss players from GRIS."

"So one of the ideas was let's keep the combat simple, plus we have a story mode where you cannot die.
And I think it works well in the end.
It's possible, but that goes to taste in the end."

"I think for me there may be a little bit too much combat.
I think we could have removed a couple there or at least do them differently with a little gameplay twist.
But I think just a couple."

"There's nothing serious.
And this is something that if we work in the future, I think it's something we need to see to improve the pacing but maybe removing some combat and adding another puzzle, something like that."

"I think that will work well in favor of the game.
But I don't know.
Now we're thinking about the next game, which we don't have anything decided."

"I was about to ask about the next game, so you have to give me something.
No, I can't.
I would love to.
But no, no, we haven't decided anything."

"But obviously one of the questions is, yeah, will we do combat again?
Will we not?
It's on the table.
If we do, I think we'll try to add a layer more of complexity."

"So at the end, it's a bit of an evolution for us.
No combat, simple combat, and maybe something more complex.
But again, I don't know even if it's going to be there, but it's on our mind at least."

"Okay, and closing one.
Of course, normally I talk art with Conrad, and I talk game more with you.
But what can you tell me about how you guys put together the art and the technical aspects of this game that is much more complex than in GRIS, where you have to paint things differently and to change things on the go."

"What can you tell me about that?
It's different.
Conrad was very not obsessed, but in his mind he wanted to do a different art for sure."

"We don't want to become like the watercolor guys, so we knew we wanted to do something different.
And he really pushed forward for these flat colors, no outline technique, I would say, which has a good side and a bad side."

"The good side is that, well, it looks good.
Second, the art, doing assets is faster because there's not so much texture, all the shading.
But it has one problem, and it's that flat on flat, sometimes you don't see the difference."

"So you have one rock and one rock.
For you, you just see that one mesh.
And that caused some issues during the development or building the levels, because sometimes it gives this weird effect of, okay, where does the rock start and where does it end?
So I had to play a lot with opacities or putting things in between assets just to make sure that you could tell the difference."

"So there was this good side and this bad side, but I think it works well.
I think people in general are very happy with the art, and what I really like is that they like it, and they say, okay, this looks like a Nomada game."

"And I think that's a plus for us.
The fact that it's recognisable as a brand, it's really, really good for us.
You brought me to a bonus question."

"Without getting into spoiler territory, I'm going to ask you about the ending.
Of course, we're not going to say what happens here.
Would you say it makes you feel like when you're done with a game and you're planning, as you said, thinking about the next one, would you say that ending can apply to developers and how life is in cycles and loops?
The thing is..."

"Tricky one. Sorry about that.
Yeah, well, especially since...
Okay, I don't know how much of a spoiler I can give.
I think most of the people didn't get the ending properly, at least not what we wanted them to get."

"A lot of people think of loops, life cycles, and things like that.
That's okay, if that's the idea people get.
It's not what we had in mind from the beginning.
All right, that's interesting."

"Maybe we didn't do the best job in explaining that.
But I think the whole life cycle also works well and works well in the theme of parenthood, new life.
That's why we were aware that a lot of people maybe wouldn't understand the proper ending."

"But that's fine. For us, it's not an issue.
But that's why I say that it's difficult to answer because it's not exactly the idea we had in mind.
And I can tell you off-camera if you want."

"You will, you will. Just in a moment.
So thank you so much for your time, Roger.
Enjoy the show. Enjoy tomorrow's talk.
I will be there. And good luck with The Game Awards."

"Yeah, sure. Thank you."

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